John Middlemas	Fil Mackay
www-html@w3.org		John Middlemas
From: Fil Mackay <fil@mpce.mq.edu.au> To: "'John Middlemas'" <john@eco.powernet.co.uk> Cc: "hyper-theory@math.byu.edu" <hyper-theory@math.byu.edu>, "www-html@w3.org" <www-html@w3.org> Subject: RE: Web neurons Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 13:13:44 +-1000 X-UIDL: 832931272.002 Hi John, >It's sort of like a neural-network. If that is structured then so are Web >neurons. So, if a 'node' is a .html page, then how do concepts such as epocs (sp?), weights, and transfer functions in neural nets map into your application? Neural networks are optimisation (optimization for all you yankies :)) tools, I don't see how you can create a popular medium out of it? >What's a petri-net? (I have only a vague recollection) Basically a real simple network where you pass tokens between nodes. They run on very simple rules (but do you think I can remember? either AND or OR). I think you fire the first node, and the changes cascade through the network. PLEASE - anyone who knows exactly what a petri-net is, please describe it, and stop my dribbling! >>>I don't know much about Java but I don't believe it operates within a Web >>>page which is the important point (I haven't got Windows 95 or NT). >>Uhh.. Java operates within web-pages (applets) and as stand-alone applications >>(in their own window). What environment do you run on? >poor old Windows 3.1 Win 3.1 runs Netscape 3.0 beta which runs Java (from memory). Developing under 3.1 is difficult, because of the short file-names. No quick solution to that IMHO. >Can you view java as lots of small Web page tables and trace the logic as I >mentioned above? or is it gobbledegook as usual? Uhh.. more information? You can run several applets (which could be like sub-pages) on the one 'page', yes. Trace the logic.. you mean as in a debugger? >>>Why complicate by adding another language when all that is needed is some >>>modification to HTML. Integration is better than fragmentation. >>Sometimes it's better to wipe the slate clean and use something better. >Will Java do away with HTML then? Good question. Perhaps, but not for the short term. When Java gets integrated into every OS under the sun, there'll be a good reason. Perhaps what we call 'browsers' will become layers of Java (like HotJava), which will open the web up a lot. HTML will then have to compete with new formats. >How will pages be rendered? My guess is that Java code will render the pages. >I don't believe Java has any neural basis. I would love to start from >scratch but is there time? How long do you have? :) Java does not have a neural basis, though implementing a neural application in Java would be no problem-o. >I don't follow this. I checked my .htm file sizes and some are as low as a >few humnred bytes? File systems need to store files in chunks of 'x' bytes. My FAT file system is 64k chunks (pretty large), so a file of 1 byte actually consumes 64k of physical space. I don't know too much about UNIX filesystems, but your files (on your FAT) system would probably be taking 16-32k of physical space. Have a look at the cluster size using chkdsk. >>>>Why not use a neural net model to represent content/the web? Then you could >>>>build all these structures? >> >>>I don't know how to. >> >>Why not use a simple table: >> >>ID, Description, FromID, ToID >> >>This table is able to model a neural network. Each entry is a node in the >>network, and >>can potentially be a link (using FromID, ToID). > >Now we're getting somewhere. What I said is incorrect, I think. Well, it's not exactly a 'neural net', although it could be. I'd call it a simple symbolic network. It could be used to describe anything (eg. A neural network). >This is the sort of thing I am trying at the >assembler level although didn't know it was a neural-net model. But couldn't >we also use HTML tables - perhaps one per page? IMHO you are going to need more nodes than you realise. >How would you implement your idea to produce say the sort of distributed >chain reaction I mentioned above and also keep normal surfing ability, which >people won't want to lose unless there's a replacement. What exactly do you mean by 'distributed chain reaction'? >Should there be some input and output levels as well: > >ID, Description, (FromID, input_level) (ToID, output_level) > >After all each neuron in the brain has inputs and outputs that pulse at >variable frequencies. I don't understand what these weights (levels) are going to do? Under a classic optimisation problem (a normal n.net application) I/O is quantitative. How is this so with surfing the Web? Later..