Rec.music.makers.synth ===================================================== Subject: Re: Technics WSA1 From: paul@softroom.demon.co.uk (Paul Nagle) Date: 1997/04/04 Message-Id: <334eb911.251962741@news.demon.co.uk> Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth chickensax@aol.com (ChickenSax) wrote: >I just bought the WSA1. They don't make them like this anymore. It is like >Bentley of keyboards. Awsome. What a unique and clear sound. 64 voices of >acustic modeling. Any news about sound expansion? Is it user upgradable? Hmmm, it sounded to me like a synth based on PCM technology. All the modelling I could hear appeared to be as a result of the filter characteristics. Not that there's anything wrong with this. It sounds great, the ball thing is cool and the screen marvellous. At current discount prices, worth having.... My guess is there won't be much in the way of expansion because few people bought them. Paul --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul Nagle - paul@softroom.demon.co.uk http://www.softroom.demon.co.uk (Upd. 26/03/97) ========================================================================== Subject: Re: Technics WSA1 From: g.j.stockham@dundee.ac.uk (Geoff Stockham) Date: 1997/04/18 Message-Id: <861355865.26637@dejanews.com> Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth [More Headers] In article , paul@softroom.demon.co.uk (Paul Nagle) wrote: > > chickensax@aol.com (ChickenSax) wrote: > > >I just bought the WSA1. They don't make them like this anymore. It is like > >Bentley of keyboards. Awsome. What a unique and clear sound. 64 voices of > >acustic modeling. Any news about sound expansion? Is it user upgradable? > Hmmm, it sounded to me like a synth based on PCM technology. All the > modelling I could hear appeared to be as a result of the filter > characteristics. Not that there's anything wrong with this. It sounds > great, the ball thing is cool and the screen marvellous. At current > discount prices, worth having.... > My guess is there won't be much in the way of expansion because few > people bought them. > Paul > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Paul Nagle - paul@softroom.demon.co.uk > http://www.softroom.demon.co.uk (Upd. 26/03/97) > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bit of a delay in replying - we don't get rec groups so I had to go via dejanews. The WSA1 does exactly what it says - Acoustic Modelling, so it models the acoustic properties of the resonator etc, but not the driver. You can model parameters such as the position the driver interacts (such as where on a string it is plucked) but not the driver itself. Some people have commented that this isn't modelling, but if it gives me such a powerful synth with such flexible editing and performance controls at such a bargain price I don't care what you call it! As for upgrades, I've heard that the extra output board and the ROM expansion are unavailable (but do exist) but I haven't tried myself. If I do find anything, I'll mention it on my website (http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~gjstockh/) which incidentally has a few disks of WSA stuff on it already.... Geoff P.S. Is this the Paul Nagle who writes for Sound on Sound? It was from their reviews that I was persuaded to buy the synth, and I haven't been disappointed (yet...). -------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====----------------------- =============================================================== Subject: Re: Technics WSA1 From: jon@durge.org (Jon) Date: 1997/04/19 Message-Id: <5jbdvi$hp8$1@fof.durge.org> Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth [More Headers] Geoff Stockham (g.j.stockham@dundee.ac.uk) wrote: : As for upgrades, I've heard that the extra output board and the ROM : expansion are unavailable (but do exist) but I haven't tried myself. If : I do find anything, I'll mention it on my website : (http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~gjstockh/) which incidentally has a few disks : of WSA stuff on it already.... : The expansions are unavailable? Oh dear. I was hoping to buy one of those at some time when I had the money. I was after the ROM expansion board. To add to all this, the modelling parameters are nothing like filters, to my ears. Totally different, and they ARE supposed to be mathematical algorithms programmed into DSP chips, not glorified EQ. If anyone knows of any shops that do these upgrades, do let me know, or get Geoff to stick it on his page (which I found rather good, as it happens). Jon ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- jon@durge.org http://www.durge.org/~jon ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- =========================================================================== Subject: Re: Technics WSA1 From: Robert Aries Date: 1997/04/20 Message-Id: <335A2F13.5CEC@ix.netcom.com> Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth [More Headers] Jon wrote: > > Geoff Stockham (g.j.stockham@dundee.ac.uk) wrote: > > : As for upgrades, I've heard that the extra output board and the ROM > : expansion are unavailable (but do exist) but I haven't tried myself. If > : I do find anything, I'll mention it on my website > : (http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~gjstockh/) which incidentally has a few disks > : of WSA stuff on it already.... > : > > The expansions are unavailable? Oh dear. I was hoping to buy one of those > at some time when I had the money. I was after the ROM expansion board. > To add to all this, the modelling parameters are nothing like filters, to > my ears. Totally different, and they ARE supposed to be mathematical > algorithms programmed into DSP chips, not glorified EQ. > If anyone knows of any shops that do these upgrades, do let me know, or > get Geoff to stick it on his page (which I found rather good, as it > happens). I hate to dissapoint you, but the modeling is done with filtering. However, many people make the mistake of associating "filtering" with "EQ". This is certainly true in the analog domain, but digital filtering is really just some heavy number-crunching; with the correct algorithms, you can do a hell of a lot more than "cut the highs" or "boost the lows". While I don't know the exact details of the WSA's implementation, I believe the filtering is something like 128 bands, individually changeable, all in real time, on up to 64 simultaneous voices--pretty serious DSP. As a further point, if you think about what "resonance" is, you'll see that a digital filter is a good tool for the job. The body of an instrument takes the basic sound waves produced by the string, reed, mouthpiece, etc., then emphasizes and cuts certain frequencies to arrive at the basic tone of the instrument. Rob Aries ============================================ From jon@durge.org Mon Apr 21 00:34:39 1997 Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth Subject: Re: Technics WSA1 From: jon@durge.org (Jon) Date: 20 Apr 1997 23:34:39 GMT Robert Aries (robaries@ix.netcom.com) wrote: [snipped stuff about filters etc.] : As a further point, if you think about what "resonance" is, you'll see : that a digital filter is a good tool for the job. The body of an : instrument takes the basic sound waves produced by the string, reed, : mouthpiece, etc., then emphasizes and cuts certain frequencies to arrive : at the basic tone of the instrument. : Just to say what I wroe to Rob - I am sure that either the filters used are special ie. weird or they use other DSP functions than simple resonant filters because the piano string sample played without a resonator is quiet and through the resonator it becomes a lot louder. This is obviously the recreation of the piano casing amplifying some frequencies and attenuuating others, but filters are attenuators only, if not resonant. So either the filters are resonant all over the place, boosintg frequencies here and there, or in large bands, or they are standard ones, with some extra DSP functions used. I imagine the former to be correct, with obivously very sharply defined resonant peaks - a low Q filter, if memory serves (it better do or else I look like an idiot). Just to say that if this machine were monophonic, like a Korg Prophecy, it would have the power to use 128*64 bands in filtering - a whopping 8192 bands which works out at about u6 Hz per band (the filters go up to 48 Khz in the sound editor). Now that is extremely accuarate, and I wager this synth is one of the most powerful on the market today. If anyone actaully knows exactly what the machine does (in technical terms) maybe they could let us (or me) know. Cheers Jon ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- jon@durge.org http://www.durge.org/~jon ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ============================================ From ian@five-d.com Mon Apr 21 18:52:04 1997 Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth Subject: Re: Technics WSA1 From: ian@five-d.com (Ian Kemmish) Date: 21 Apr 1997 17:52:04 GMT In article <335A2F13.5CEC@ix.netcom.com>, robaries@ix.netcom.com says... > >"boost the lows". While I don't know the exact details of the WSA's >implementation, I believe the filtering is something like 128 bands, >individually changeable, all in real time, on up to 64 simultaneous >voices--pretty serious DSP. That sounds like a lot of overkill for what you actually get. It sounds like it's really just a damped (sometimes severely damped) resonator, one (or possibly two, though they are not fully independent) for each tone generator (so there's four of them per voice) although the four can be linked to drive each other for interesting but generally unmusical effects. By playing with the `fitting' parameter, you can choose between a sound with not much resonant formant shaping and a reasonable percussive attack, or a sound with a lot of resonant formant shaping that's all but useless because it has an attack of a second or longer.... Other parameters are similar, in that most of them seem to suffer from the problem that they have almost no effect over 90% of their range, and behave in unpredictable ways over the remaining 10%. This suggests that not much effort went into deciding what the resonators should model. I suspect the core is basically just a difference equation modelling a damped oscillator, driven by the PCM wave input. Hardly sophisticated, and hardly requiring much hardware. (Open the top and you'll see one DSP each for the three effects units, but only one ASIC for the entire rest of the machine - I think this says a lto about the horsepower it has available to deploy on modelling!) Even less effort seems to have gone into translating the parameter names into English, which makes life even harder:-). On the other hand, the ``ordinary'' VCFs that come downstream of all this, are really pretty good. They whistle nicely if you turn the resonance up, and also feature a swept EQ half, so you can have LPF + HPF, LPF + LPF, LPF + EQ etc. ============================================================================ Ian Kemmish 18 Durham Close, Biggleswade, Beds SG18 8HZ ian@five-d.com Tel: +44 1767 601 361 Fax: +44 1767 312 006 Info on Jaws and 5D's other products on http://www.five-d.com/5d ============================================================================ `Save string while you're young. Then when you're older, you'll have a ball.'